Ok, so before I get a whole bunch of weird looks in class Thursday, my title is from the Disney movie Mulan and mainly I just like to have cute titles. Oh, and it's also not just about having a significant other worth fighting for. So here we go.
So, today in class we talked in pretty good detail about the motive for this war, greed, anger, revenge...and the like. We also talked in great detail about honor. But I can't help but wonder, is that all? Yes, I would say for Agamemnon the motive is greed and for Menolaus it's probably revenge but what about for the true heroes? I would even say that the real heroes were pretty greatly motivated by honor but is that all? That is my question.
The answer I've come to (so far...definitely subject to change as we're not done with the book yet) is no. I believe a great motivating factor behind it for the characters we actually like is love! Furthermore, is that what makes a great warrior? Is love the driving force behind the epic heroes, even those today?
My first point, that there is more to it than surface answers, lies in the text such as in book 6 where Hektor is telling his wife that the reason he will go fight is because he refuses to see her taken away in to slavery. He will fight to his very death for her good. Sounds like a certain Bible verse I know...hmmm. Something along the lines of, "Greater love has none that this, that a man lay down his life for his friend." (John 15:13)
And again, Achilleus doesn't say he's fighting for love, but I believe it's one of the reasons he refuses to fight for a while. He's hurt. He even says that they took the "bride of his heart." What man would use that terminology if he wasn't head over heels in love?
Both are fueled (in my opinion though Achilleus is definitely arguable) by their love for their women, but also Hektor for his love of country and Achilleus for his love of the fight.
My second point, is love (or passion) the driving force behind great warriors? I would say yes. Isn't God and country the mantra of military today? Is it love for keeping families safe? Sure, I would say so. What about for love of country? Yes. I think a warrior needs something to fight for, and I think anything worth fighting for, is worth loving.
Commented on Amy's
ReplyDeleteDear Mallory.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I love Mulan. (: and now the song is stuck in my head.
Second, you are so cute. Are you always this romantic in your posts? haha.
Seriously though, I've also been thinking a lot about whether or not there were motivations of the characters are limited to the obvious pride, honor etc. Its interesting to pose this argument when we are taught (at least I was in my World Civ class today, and high school) that men of this time only saw women as objects, and clearly Agamemnon only sees the women he offers as his "bribe" (to Achilles) as just that, prizes and possessions. This makes me wonder, how does one come to a place within a society where women are treated as possessions where one man begins to love with real heartfelt love? Is that a learned trait? In our society today everyone choses whom they love and whom they will marry and yet, our divorce rate continues to sky rocket...yet in other times and in other cultures the marriages were/are arranged and there is a much smaller percentage and even a lack of divorce. Now one could argue that the reason for that is because people in those cultures did/do not have the freedom to divorce. But could it be that these people who learn to love one another have a thicker bond then casual, passionate love that begins to fade and can fail to keep the two people together when adversity comes...So is loved something learned, or is it something innate within our souls? Did men like Achilles learn to love "the bride of his heart" or did he love her lustfully simply for her beauty and for the pride of his honor being stripped from him? Did Hector learn from his father King Priam (who clearly had many women) to love his wife with a long lasting stable love or was it completely natural within his character to love and protect his weaker wife and infant son?
I don't know if it's romantic love they are fighting for...it seems that if they would go to the extreme it would be real love.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, to me, this book feels like a high school soap opera. Except that they are at war and the roles have been flipped, all female roles are played by men and vise versa. The gods are the medaling parents. So picture it, most of the men are fighting for love (by love I mean ladies) and everyone is getting mad at each other for stealing those ladies. Thus they declare war til the death. (On a soap opera it would be a social death.) The ones who aren't fighting for "love" are fighting for themselves, throwing themselves into the drama to have their names remembered by the lower class men.
So, for some maybe it is true love, but I believe for some, Agamemnon, it's just a way to get a full page spread to himself in the yearbook...
haha. the yearbook. Can you imagine the Trojan War yearbook? bahahahha. that image was amazing.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I think Mallory and Alana have similar points. I can see the whole Hektor being the manly knight-in-shining-armor-fighting-for-his-family picture. But I will not tell a lie, I can fully see Agamemnon playing the role of Regina George. Alana has a point in saying it is a lot like a high school soap opera in drag. BUT! I feel that if we handed out a pre-war survey to these guys, there would need to be a blank that read: "Fighting for the love of ________." Every single man would fill it. One man is fighting for his lady, one man is fighting for fame, one man is fighting for Narnia, one man is fighting for the fight itself...you catch my drift. If you think about it, we all wake up every day for the love of something. I woke up this morning for the love of fresh opportunities.
ReplyDeleteKudos to all.
First off, the fact that your title is from Mulan makes my day :)
ReplyDeleteI absolutely agree with you. Whether it's for a noble cause or not, all men have something to fight for. However, I'm not sure if Achilleus really loves Briseus. In my opinion, he sees her as an object, just like all of his other women. Instead of being upset because the love of his life was stolen from him, I think that his ego was hurt because someone else stole something that "belonged" to him.
Good job with the Mulan quote Malory, it certainly got my attention. What you said is very true, and were they fighting for love back then? My answer would be yes, I do believe that most of them were, but I also believe that some of them were also fighting for brotherly love, for their comrades. And not in a queer way....thanks Dr. Schuler. And I personaly believe that the average warrior fought not only for Kleos, but also for the protection of his family which included the love of his life. And other warriors fought for girls that they hoped to marry one day, in order to protect their future wives, they put their lives on the line for them.
ReplyDeleteMalory, I love how you pull the romance out of a fierce fighter. haha :)
ReplyDeleteI agree though. Fighting is pointless unless you have something you're fighting for.
And now I have the song Love is Not a Fight by Warren Barfield stuck in my head. :)